Kathi
Hey, my friend, what's up? And welcome back to another episode of Do Life Big. I'm so excited to have you here today, because today we have a special guest, Scott on the show today. Scott is a father, he's a husband, he's an entrepreneur, he's a podcaster, and I'm really excited for you to be able to hear from him today. So thanks for being on the show, Scott.
Scott
Oh, pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
Kathi
I'm excited to have you here. All right, so let's get this party started here. Why don't we kick it off by if you could just tell everybody a little bit about what you do and who you help. That'd be awesome.
Scott
Yeah. So right now, what I do is I founded a company. I do a lot of things. So right now my primary business is called Functional Lawyer. And what I do is we help physicians and nurse practitioners and PAs and kind of anybody that needs to start a their own medical practice, whether that's integrative or functional medicine, personalized care, like some of the words all kind of blend together, but I just help them not get sued. And so we do that through like, high quality legal templates, there's office hours each week. There's a kind of online education component, and some one-on-one time as well. And that came about because my wife is a physician, started her own functional medicine practice, and we quickly learned, and I wasn't doing healthcare law, we quickly learned that the options were limited. So it was either we originally went to the healthcare partner at my firm and paid them $2,500 for him to say, I don't really know how to help you, which is very common, from what I've learned. And then we ultimately found another firm that could help us. But it was 30,000 to kind of get everything set, just for setup. And so I was like, There's being a an hourly billing attorney at the time. I was like, there's gotta be a better way, because it's not that hard to do this transactional work. Now, litigation in some transactional work, yes, does require expertise and tons of man hours, but just like these basic foundational concepts, don't need to be paying 30 grand for it.
Kathi
Wow. My god, that's excessive. So that's really interesting. I didn't realize that your wife did functional medicine.
Scott
Yeah, it was kind of like the keystone to all of this. So she started her practice in 2016 with a with an 18 month, oh no, he was two years old and a six month old. So we were busy. And so she started her practice in 2016 got it really successful by the end of, like, 2018 to the point where, you know, at that point, I had functional lawyer, and I had some clients. And I believe it was the end of 2019 where people started asking me. They're like, hey, can you be my business coach?
Kathi
That's awesome.
Scott
Because my wife was so successful. And these were just clients of mine from the legal side. They were like, we want what she has. Because I, you know, through just conversations, it came out like she was doing very well financially, and her time in front of patients was lower than most people end up being. And so she had some time freedom, some and some financial freedom too. And this was all you know, as our kids were under five. So they were like, Yeah, can you be our business coach? Two people separately around the same month, which was kind of fortuitous.
Kathi
That's unbelievable.
Scott
I was in a mentorship program at the time, and they were like, Yeah, you can be a coach. It's fine. And so I was like, Sure, here's how it works. It's three calls a month, and this is what you'll pay. And they're like, Sure, Sign me up. And I was like, Okay, this is crazy. So in between calls, so in between my one hour calls with them, I would go back to Linda and be like, Hey, how do we do this? I need to teach them next week. Like, what do we do? What's going on with this? And she as a provider who's busy and has kids in laundry and a husband to take care.
Kathi
Yeah, exactly which is like, third kid, right? Right? I didn't want to say it out loud, but you took the words right on my mouth.
Scott
Husbands know and wives know probably too. She goes, well, if it were me, I would prefer instead of drips and jabs every week, because it's like, Did you do your homework? No, or you forget. And then, like, the call comes up, and you're like, oh shit, I don't want to go to this call. And it's like, ah, she's like, why don't we just do a weekend seminar? And then these two people, you know, see if they'll, see if they'll do it, we will. It'll be free or included in what they've already paid you, and we'll just lay it all out over two days. And so we asked them if they preferred that, and they said, Yeah. One flew down from Illinois to here in Florida, the other drove over from the East Coast. And so we did that.
Kathi
That's awesome.
Scott
This was amazing. And so we're like, we'll start charging for this. Like, what would you pay for this weekend? And they were like, well, definitely, whatever it was, yeah. And so we just started doing that, like two or three times a year, which is a weekend seminar. And we would, it would kind of kind of just pop up when my clients came to me for legal help, I said, Well, we do this. If you're interested. They're like, yeah. And so...
Kathi
Oh my God, that's so cool.
Scott
Yeah, we were just talking about it last night. So this was late 2018 when we started it, and then we did it for about a year, and then we were getting ready to host people for April, 2020 and then we couldn't, so…
Kathi
I know right, thank you, COVID.
Scott
And they had already prepaid, and it was, it was gonna be amazing. And then luckily, we were like, hey, if you'll give us six weeks, we'll put it all online for you. And so we took our two day seminar and then put it all into, like, an online course. And that was harder to do than we thought, because it was a lot of us like, here's how we do it. Let's work with you together in this hour, and we'll figure it out. So we had to, like, anticipate all the questions, etc. So we did that and sold that for a little while, just kind of like a, you know, a regular course, like DIY, but we have some office hours with you, and then. So this is this business is now called Origins Incubator, and so now it's more of a cohort model. It's once a year openings. And so, we help people, physicians, set up they’re like the how to run a practice. I'm that's Linda, and then I'm in the legal side, financial side, and then we have a third partner that teaches clinical qualifies for continuing education credits as well. And there's, you know, case studies, Live Office Hours there too. Clinical Case studies there too. So that's our other business.
Kathi
That's unbelievable. That's wow, that's crazy, though, that's awesome.
Scott
But, yeah, like, it's all kind of come from Linda, really, she's kind of the driver.
Kathi
It's always the driver, right?
Scott
Yeah, and so, so, like, quickly, but you (Wait, what did you that?) Was it we got to that point quickly in this conversation, but that's kind of like some of the arc there.
Kathi
Yeah, that's really cool. Okay, so did you go to school? You went to college to be an attorney, like you went and you.
Scott
Yeah, well, I'll make it shorter than it needs to be. I had already graduated college. I wasn't planning to be an attorney.
Kathi
Oh, you weren't okay.
Scott
I had a job in in the military industry complex and navy contractor. And it was, you know, I was the youngest person by 20 years in my department. Is that they were all like, ex-Navy enlisted retirees and so, you know, guys, but I was like this. I didn't have any friends. I mean, they were all great, but I was 25 and they were all like 50. So, and it wasn't, wasn't looking like there was much room for advancement there, and I hated the work. It wasn't. I didn't go to school for that. So I was like, Well, let me just try law school, and if I end up not liking being a lawyer, I'll be a C suite executive somewhere. This is what 25-year-olds think, right?
Kathi
Yeah, exactly.
Scott
So, yeah, ended up going to William and Mary in Williamsburg, beautiful town, and then my first job was in Orlando. So we settled there. I worked at a big law firm there, and then Linda started her practice six months later.
Kathi
Okay, that's awesome. And so when did you so were you doing this business at the same time as you were like, were you doing both things for a while?
Scott
So when she started her practice, I was still working as a litigator in Orlando, which meant, because I was still pretty inefficient at the time, it meant like, 16 hour days, you know, most weeks. So I wasn't seeing my kids. It supported us. It helped support Linda and her business and all of that. So it was good money, but I was looking around at the firm thinking, I hate this. And I was just mainlining coffee all day. And I was like, super skinny because I just, like, wasn't really eating, and I was just stressed out all the time. And and Linda was like, You're bony, and so… I don't know if those were her words, but she was worried about my weight, and so I looked around and I was like, This is great, but I had heard about golden handcuffs, where it was good pay for a second year associate. But looking around like other people didn't seem like they were super happy either. Looking at an associate, she was probably seventh or eighth year, and she was always stressed out working so hard, I was like, for what like, if I continue to work hard and stay here, my reward is more of this.
Kathi
Right, exactly. I know it's so true, but so many people don't even do anything about it. They just do that till they retire and that's it.
Scott
Yes. And so I ended up deciding to leave, which was a whole, you know, mental process, but one, but to your point, when I was saying my goodbyes at the firm, like half of them were like, You're crazy, but the other half they're like, You're crazy. What are you doing? You're kind of throwing it all away a little bit.
Kathi
Yeah, exactly.
Scott
Other Half looked at me. They didn't explicitly say it. Some of one or two of them did, but the other half were like, I wish I could get out too, you know?
Kathi
Oh, yeah.
Scott
So you know that I didn't really that struck me that day, or those days where I was saying goodbyes, but I kind of recognized that I didn't need to be there. I didn't want to look around in 20 years and be there because I would hate it, and I wouldn't see my kids, I'd be home at six or seven every night, and that's not how I wanted to go through life.
Kathi
I know. Yeah, it's, it's so true, like, I always think about that how, like, you know, you can't get, the one thing you can't get back in life is time. Yeah, if you have little kids at home, it's like, they're little and they're only with you for this really small amount of time give your whole life to work and figure your shit out, but you have this one little bit of time to be present in your kids lives. And why miss out on that you can't go back and redo it.
Scott
Yeah, and not to take anything away if somebody is working hard, and eventually, if, if you're lucky enough to have a home maker, homemaker, yeah, I think that's still a PC term, somebody that can stay home then, then there's certainly that trade off too, and there's probably nothing wrong with that, but we were both kind of away, so we had to have a nanny. And it was like, this is crazy.
Kathi
Yeah, I know, yeah, exactly. And you wanted to be there. You wanted to be able to have more time. I know some people just are just like, I just want to work. That's fine too. But if, like, you're someone who really wants to have more time with your family, then you're going to make the change.
Scott
My dad's an airline pilot, and so is my brother, (and oh, really, that's awesome). Half the, not half the reason, but some families that have airline pilots, it's like, we work better when dad's gone, like they get into their routine. And professional athletes too, who are gone a lot, and so dad gets a break from the family. And that actually works for a lot of families.
Kathi
So yeah, exactly. It's got to be weird, right? You establish your own routines, like there alone, by yourself, with the kids, and then the other one comes back, and it's like, wait a minute, you're kind of messing things up a little bit. That's not how we do it.
Scott
Yeah. I mean, here in southwest Florida, we have a lot of professional baseball families. And so I grew up with a lot of their children, and that's, that's what their wives would say. And, yeah, same thing.
Kathi
That's so funny. That's so neat. I love hearing about it. So when you were talking about the, I just wanted to say the functional medicine piece. So Nick and I are going down this like, path right now where we want to live to 100 years old. Okay. And so we're into all this, like, bio hacking now, and like we did he tell you about this the other day when we hung out on New Year, oh, okay. Anyway, so we, like, paid $500 to well, actually, they gifted it to me for free. It was like, function health. Have you ever heard of this?
Scott
Yeah, it's pretty new. Yeah, functional.
Kathi
Yeah, it's pretty new. So they actually gifted me a whole entire year whatever, for free. Yeah, function health did because I think I have, like, a lot of followers on Instagram or something. But Nick had actually, I didn't know that they did this. So I had been telling Nick, like, Oh, I really want to, like, live to 100. I want to try to do all these things, to try to, you know, live as long as I can, and feel as good as I can. And, you know, like, I'm all into like, I'm all into like, this weird stuff, like crystals and the vitamins and all that, all the supplements and all that stuff. And so I was like, I really want this function help thing. And it's a whole year, and, you know, you go and you get tested, and they test all your blood and all this and see what you're deficient in and all of that. So he went and, like, bought me a whole entire year for my birthday back in December, and then I happened to check my email, and in my spam was an email from function health saying, like, we'd like to give you gift to you an entire year for function health. And so I was like, Oh, sweet. So I got the free year, and then Nick was able to get like, the one that he bought me and transfer it over to himself. So we're really excited to go and get all like the blood work done in C, like, because I know I'm lacking in something like vitamin D, some form of vitamin B,
Scott
Yeah. No, that's a great service. I think it's founded by Dr Mark Hyman, who is kind of like the rock star in the functional medicine world, anyways. And, you know, I think, well, he attached his name to it, but I'm sure, yeah, you know, best selling author and all that stuff. But yeah, that's a really cool business model. Another friend of mine was just saying he was waiting until January until his like HSA kicked in, so he could buy the function health labs.
So yeah, it's super I think it's a great i It's a great thing for consumers, so long as you don't freak out at some of the results and take them to somebody that can help you interpret them and and all that. Or if you're very, if you're very like, into the biohacking part, and you have some information and you know what to do, then great. But I think a lot of doctors hesitate to, like, promote that, because they're like, patients, typically, when they get their live results from me, they're like, oh my god, this is out of control. Or it says abnormal. And because functional medicine labs have a smaller normal range, than conventional labs. And so that I would just say that to anyone that's listening or trying to go do that, like, okay, interpret them as as you will. But don't make it like WebMD, where it's like, oh, everything I have is cancer.
Kathi
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And they do have, like, you can pay like, extra money to get like, all this stuff tested to see, like, if there's any like, signs of cancer. I'm like, Oh no, if I would do that. But yeah,
Scott
And another, another longevity guy, as you were saying, like, living to 100 I was like, but at, at what level of health, right?
Kathi
Yeah, I want to be functional. I want to be moving. I want to be able to enjoy my life and have like, a good quality of life. I don't want to be just like a vegetable in a vegetable in a, you know, in a hospital, but being like, but I made it to 100.
Scott
Yeah, I know. And so, like, a new, a new phrase I just heard about, like, maybe a year ago, is called Health Span. And so lifespan to 100 but like, what is your health score like? Are you able to, like, go and hang out with your grandkids, and maybe great grand kids at that point.
Kathi
Seriously, I know. So do you and your wife do? Like, is this what you guys talk about a lot, like, with, like, patience. Is this? Like, this is everything?
Scott
Yeah. I mean just, so let me just circle that close. That loop is Peter Attia has a book outlive which is great for consumers. He's very scientific. But if you're like me and not very scientific, I would say, skip to chapter 11, okay? And it talks a lot about longevity, and he's really big about, like, zone two cardio training, which is, like, you know, moderate exercise, like, think of walking up a hill, okay, nothing crazy. You could do it with a pulled hamstring,
Kathi
I was gonna say after the pulse hamstring with the flag football.
Scott
Yeah, at this point, it's not, it's not terrible. In fact, it's, it's hard if you do end up running a little bit like, it's hard to stay in zone two and not bump up to, like, the zone threes, and then he's like, functional movements, like nothing, no power, lifting, no cross, fitting, that stuff. I mean, you can if you want. But for longevity sake, that's not really necessary.
Kathi
That's really cool. And what was his name? Again, Peter.
Scott
Peter Attia, in his book, is outlive, outlive, and he's got a program that you might want to look into getting for free.
Kathi
I know, right. I'm like, how else can I make out on this?
Scott
Yeah, that one's like 2500 it's more of like a one year program, and they have, like, coaching and all that stuff. So I don't know when that opens or when it closes, but Outlay is the name of the book. It's a great book. But, yeah, my wife, well, I don't talk about it as much. I just hear the buzz words and take whatever supplements she puts in front of me. But…
Kathi
What supplements does she put in front of you? I don't know. She's just random bills. It's like all I can think of was, when I was a child, like, every morning I'd come down for breakfast, I'd eat my cereal, but there'd be like, a pile of like vitamins there waiting for me to take, you know, like acidophilus and beta carotene and vitamin C.
Scott
Good. I mean, ahead of that, I was, I was thinking you were gonna say Flintstone vitamins, candy. No. So, you know, I always joke. I'm like, I don't know. So if I never, if I ever die of poisoning, like you should look at Lin Linda first, exactly.
But I mean, for for patients, I think baseline level is usually like a fish oil, vitamin D, a multi and then maybe one or two other things. It's kind of like what she usually says to people at parties, because, like, people ask your questions all the time, like, what should I be taking? It's like, I don't know, but most people probably are low in vitamin D. I know fish oil is good for getting some fat, good healthy fats, and supports brain health. And it doesn't have to taste terrible. It comes in, like, gel caps, and because it comes in liquid too, and that's awful for us a multi, like a good multi, and so the doctors in our space kind of have their preferred brands, one of which you can now get on on Amazon and Walmart. It's called Xymogen, but that's X, Y mogen and then, but if you guys need help and personalized care, and say, talk to a health care provider. Yeah. You're like, not making the listeners now.
Kathi
You're like, Kathi, stop at these questions.
Scott
Definitely don't listen to me. I don't know. I'm always like, I talk to doctors all day for their legal needs, but I'm always like, giving examples. And I'm like, let's say your TSH is, I don't know, 470 and they, like, start laughing because it's on a scale, like zero to 1.5 or something like that. And so I'm always, I kind of do it tongue in cheek, but I really don't know, so don't listen to me. I'm not a doctor.
Kathi
Do you hear that everybody? Don't listen to him, right? That's so funny. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. I was like, I was just, just real quick before we hop back into it. I was, did you ever see that Netflix show called the Blue Zones.
Scott
Yeah, we do. I think we watched like the first two. Yeah, that's really cool, too.
Kathi
It's all about like, they go around the world, you know, and like they study, like the different areas where people who, you know, live to 100 and longer, and like the things that they do. And it's like, what you said, they all have that one thing in common, where they're, they are, they're walking.
Scott
They're on their feet most of the time. You know? They have the Italian village where they're going uphill a lot, yeah, exactly, right, right?
Kathi
Like, they're always gardening, yeah? So I'm, like, I definitely need to get some more cardio in my life. You know what I mean? Because I'm more of, like, the weight lifting, not not CrossFit. I don't do that, but I'll just do like, weight lifting, and then I'll do like, a two mile walk with a dog, like, five days a week, you know.
Scott
Yeah. And again, Zone Two is not hard to get to if you go slow, but Peter Tia talks a lot about ruck sacks, and so it's just, you know, that can be expensive to buy, maybe get that for free, but it's a backpack with, like, a square weight in it, like, that's like, snug to the back, like, ta high, oh, yes, not like when we were in middle school, like, walking like hunchbacks.
Kathi
Yeah, I do have a weighted vest, actually, same kind of thing, right?
Scott
Yeah, exactly. So if it's like 10 or 20 pounds, then that's like, and then in Florida, it's hard because we don't have any hills, but kind of like, go in like a hilly area, or just take a treadmill and put it on, like five or seven on the incline and walk and watch TV or
Kathi
Yeah, that's true. Yeah? Put a podcast in my ear. Awesome. All right, so let's go back. Sorry, that was a little bit of a sidetrack. But I just, you know, you said functional medicine, and then I'm like, thinking about all the things and all the questions. It's like, okay, get back on topic here. All right, so what do you think was so, how many years has this been now that you've been in business for like,
Scott
So, okay, so functional lawyer was officially incorporated in 2018 so just at seven years now, seven, Linda opened hers in 2016 and then I like, left my firm in 2017 so I kind of like started the process in 2017, and then now we have the she stopped seeing patients, because this origins, incubator, mentorship program is the focus. And so she was trying to do both. And, you know, like Ron Swanson says from Parks and Rec, you can't half ass, two things. You have to whole ass, one thing. So she at my behest, because malpractice and all the costs were were too high to support, like the handful of patients she wanted to keep around. I was like, you gotta stop. And so she doesn't see patients anymore. And now origins, incubator is the is the focus.
So the business mentorship, the mindset, work that we do with them, and then marketing, legal, all that stuff. So that's, I guess it's in its fourth year, if you count all the iterations. And then so seven for me. And then we, we also have a software company that's fledgling. (Oh my god), yeah. And all of this, you know, that's amazing. I know your focus is mindset, and I do want to circle back to that, but just to kind of say where this all came from. It's just kind of people needed a solution, and they had a problem and they needed a solution, and we couldn't find a solution, so we just kind of created it. And so there was a company that we would refer people to, a software company for, like, helping with intake of patients. And we were getting ready to launch our very first cohort. We had 30 doctors ready to rock. And then we get an email from this company, software company, that's like, Hey, we're not taking new clients anymore indefinitely. And we're like, what it was a big piece of, like, a big key to, like, the onboarding process.
And so we started, like, doing our own we tried to find some developers now, like, two and a half years later, we're, like, seeking funding, and we've got a good MVP that we're ready to hit the market with, but it's, you know, if we knew that it was going to be this difficult, we probably wouldn't have started. So, yeah, right, naive tea, naivete, and just going and starting without really, you know, waiting for all the stars of the line is good. Ultimately, she said that to me the other day, but I think that'll ultimately be really successful. Yeah, that's just another way of serving the people we already serve. And so, like, I think you had transitioned from health and wellness physically to now, like, health and wellness mentally, It's kind of like the same idea, like, we're still helping the same people, you know, get better, feel better, just in a slightly different way,
Kathi
Just in a different way. Yeah, I know. I think that's awesome, though. So what do you think, like, what was the I just have a couple questions. So when you were transitioning into now business, like, full time, and you said, like, goodbye to the attorney job that was sucking the life out of you, what do you think? What do you think was the hardest piece of that transition that you had to overcome?
Scott
So much… so much everything. I left out one detail. So I actually left the firm and I took a job as a sales rep for a marketing course. But it was, it was kind of strategic, because it was one of the biggest names in the functional medicine space. It's called Evolution of Medicine. And they had a big podcast, following YouTube, following whatever, and now they had a marketing course. And so the two marketing guys that I that wrote the course, I knew them well, or I had been following them for a while, and so I took a sales rep jobs 100% commission, and so we went into some debt during this period because I wasn't as good. It wasn't as easy as they made it sound, but what that did was allow me to talk to doctors and figure out who might you know what ended up being my target market, because this was functional lawyer was kind of always an idea that was a seed there. I just didn't have the confidence, because I wasn't a healthcare attorney, so sales rep job that was difficult because now it's like, you've got to make all these calls, or you make no money that day or that month, and so I wasn't very good at that. So self discipline my time as an entrepreneur, there's no boss. You work from home. Like that was not my strength for sure.
Then as I transitioned, so I was talking to these doctors, and they're like, Oh, you're an attorney. Can you help me with my legal stuff? I was like, No, I wasn't that kind of attorney. And there's no, like, residency or anything for attorneys, so it's just a matter of getting, gaining the experience. So I started to, I partnered with that same law firm that helped my wife for an exorbitant fee and be like, Hey, can I can I, like, get you to review some legal documents and templates, and then I can I sell them? And I asked permission. They said, Yes. And so I partnered with them. I paid them an exorbitant fee to get this, but it helped me learn healthcare law a lot more. And so it started out as really just selling good quality legal documents, because people would send me, like, Hey, I put this together. Can you take a look? And I'd be like, Sure, hoping they would buy a marketing course for me. And it would be like, three different fonts, like Comic Sans, Times New Roman and and I was like, this is kind of terrible. Where'd you get it? And they're like, I put it together myself. And so that kind of led to, all right, these people don't have the money to pay 30 grand, but they can pay, like, $300 for a good quality document.
I was like, you just need these five and it's, it's really easy and but then now, you know, seven years on, it's, it's evolved into, right? There's documents, but then we also have an education component, office hours every week, and it's still a flat rate, and it's like an all inclusive thing, but it's, it's one flat rate, three different payment options. So I would say the biggest thing is imposter syndrome. I'm not a healthcare attorney, you know, like, I don't know, do you or asking for money early on was hard? And so, you know, I took a bunch of courses, you know, Marie Forleo and David Bayer eventually, and everybody just kind of, I mean, I like to absorb the info. And so turning it from absorbing into into action was also difficult. But just, I think fear, fear is kind of like the biggest thing that held me back, just like fear of rejection, because I'm a people pleaser, like external validation, and so if anybody was like, No thanks, I kind of took that personally. And even in the early days of my business with email subscribers, if I were to send a broadcast email and somebody unsubscribed, I'd be like, What the heck, man, I spent like, eight hours on this piece of content, I wrote the email, and this is gold stuff. I don't even I didn't even ask for any sales. I was just like, here's free content, and subscribers I was I would get. So I would take that personally. It would put me into a funk, and no understanding that that's not personal. It's it's actually good, because it only keeps people on the list that want to be there early on, when you need every single dollar in order to make ends meet, right? That was, that was a big personal thing. So just fear of rejection, basically, and that kind of carries on to this day, but I've learned to manage it better.
Kathi
Yeah, exactly. How do you manage it now? Like, if there's someone listening who's like, oh my god, that's so me, I totally have, like, the fear of rejection, like, I'm so worried if I put like, a piece of content out there, send an email, that someone's gonna unsubscribe, or they're gonna unfollow me, or they're gonna make a bad comment, so then they just avoid it, and they don't do it at all. Like, how do you
Scott
Or I'm just bother I don't wanna bother people. Yeah, exactly. If you never ask for the sale, you don't get money. So how I deal with it now is I just take it less personal, and I understand that I'm not a fit for everybody, even though my mom loves me a lot and says that everybody should love me. I'm not a fit for everyone, and that's okay. There will be another person. And so I think what I didn't know at the time was I was putting all my eggs into too few baskets, not one, but like, I would have like, two sales calls a week, or something like that. Yeah, that's not enough. So of course, when you only have maybe eight sales calls a month, you, like, need to close six or seven of them, right? But that's just not really sustainable, unless you're a unicorn. So, like, it was just like, putting myself out there, getting more people into the sales pipeline. I don't like using the word pipeline, but just getting in front of more people, yeah, and just understanding it's a numbers game. It's not. And also, I was probably not a very good salesman at the time, too. So just, you know, okay, what can I do better watching game tape, like, record all your sales calls. Like, go back. It's. Any photo watch, but go back and watch it. I know you gotta do it now. It's professional athletes do it. Professional speakers do it. Salespeople, good. Salespeople do it so it's not taking it too personal and understanding it's a numbers game. So if 25 people say no, all I need is five people to say yes. So I need 30. I need 30 calls and just that's that was a huge difference.
Kathi
Yeah, I know we used to talk about that all the time in my my other business, especially, like, I mean, it's always a numbers game. But have you ever heard of, like, go for No? Have you read that?
Scott
No
Kathi
Yeah, that's like, the same exact concept. It's like, you know, every No, like, every No, just gets you closer to the yes and also to understanding that, like, just because, like, someone may say no, it's not, might not be a no forever. It's just a No, not right now. Now it's not at the right time, yeah, type of thing. And like, I know it's hard though, if you take it personally, because then you don't, you don't want to put yourself out there. And like, you really do have to, like, put yourself out there all the time, like, to get what you want. And when you try to help all the people, then you really end up helping no one, because then you're not specific enough, you're not really talking to the right person, so no one's attracted to you in the end.
Scott
Yeah, exactly, and, and you're not bugging them. If you're bugging them, they'll unsubscribe, right? So great. People that are still there want to hear from you, they signed up to hear from you. And if you're at least semi consistent with your I'm talking about emails now, then they'll appreciate it, and yeah, that will keep them understanding who you are, right? Because, yeah, nobody likes the guy the email people that like email you every day or two or three times a day. Like, I would say that's a little excessive, but you know, minimum, I do unsubscribe to those people,
Right? Like, or they're just promotions folder forever. I never open anything. Yeah, exactly. I would say a good Kate, find a cadence that works for you, maybe like once a week, and then, as Kathi and I have spoken about, I don't know if we were recording yet or not, but being consistent with it, whether it's doesn't have to be perfect. So don't take eight hours to write a piece of content, unless it's like a giant like pillar piece for SEO or something like that. Yeah, right, but they just want to hear from you, so just giving valuable tips, even if they're not perfect. And I think that was my big hold up, too, is perfectionism and trying to be consistent.It's like, not every because, as an attorney, there's like, exceptions, there's not always clear answers. And so I'm like, oh, sorry if this, then this. And I was like, try to write these, like, beautiful essays, and that takes a long time.
Kathi
Yeah, I know I must. It must take take so long, and so I'd write this beautiful thing,
Scott
It would take forever, and someone unsubscribe and then just get angry that was my fault for not, like, doing either more efficient work or focusing on the right things, which is getting people to the sales point. Anyways, yeah, and, you know, always being able to recognize when you know your product maybe need to be improved.
Kathi
Yeah, that's true, too. But no, isn't it funny, right? How the brain does that where, you know, it's like, we don't really see or pay attention to the people who are subscribed and watching and listening and want to be a part of our, you know, journey of what we're doing. But then there's that one person that unsubscribes or unfollows or leaves the comment, and we put all of our focus and attention on that one person. It's like, after a while, you get to the point where you're just like, you're just like, Screw it. I don't care. That's good. I don't want these people to follow me if they're not into my stuff. I want more of the people who are into it to follow me and like this stuff.
Scott
Yeah, and one of my mentors talks about, like, followers and subscribers. This is just vanity metrics. They don't mean dollars. And so at the end of the day, if you're running a business, you need dollars, and so focusing on the number of likes or comments or shares you get is great if eventually some of your posts are like, buy my stuff. Set up a call with me here. Have you heard this is what we're doing now. Like, you have to sell. And Gary V, a big internet marketer guy, he texts like, jab, jab, jab, bright, yeah. So give value maybe 80 or 90% of the time, but you must be by asking for the sale. So if your business model is like, social media, like, that's a good ratio. But also, if it's like, schedule free calls with me, like, put that everywhere. It's free. They can ignore it. Yeah, you know.
Kathi
So did you ever have like, I know you said like at the beginning that you, like, were worried to ask for the sale and say the price. Like, do you struggle with any of that now? Or are you just like, it is what it is. It's either you can afford it and you want it or not.
Scott
Yeah, I think there's a lot of behind your energy there. So actually, had two sales calls this morning before I hopped on and
Kathi
you had six. Is that what you said?
Scott
I had two this morning.
Kathi
Oh, okay.
Scott
And so I was a little bit sluggish. It was like, 8am so I did 25 jumping jacks right before the call. Yeah, just to get my heart rate going, because it's like, you know, there's so much that could be said about sales, but no, now I don't. Now I don't worry about the price at all. If they can't afford it, actually have a couple payment options, and I make more money just over a longer period of time. But it's usually not about price. And so I have been less about, oh, okay, well, what if I gave you a 10% discount, which a lot of people are tempted to do here? No, right away, but I've built a super valuable product where, uh.
In my opinion, in my opinion, and all of my clients, maybe save one over seven years has been like, This is amazing. The value far exceeds the price, and I know that. And so I think part of it is having confidence in what you're delivering. Maybe in the early days when I was with those two coaching clients, I wasn't really sure what I was doing, but I'd named a number, and they said yes. And so I just keep, keep naming a number. But no, I don't have any problems now, because I'm like, this is the price. And early on I would be like, super nervous. And so my energy, the transference, was probably terrible.
Kathi
Yeah, exactly. It's all energy.
Scott
But now I'm like, Okay, which one do you prefer? Because I do have three payment options. So it's like, a, you know, false, false choice. Like, which, which payment options you want to get started with? And they're like, Well, I don't know. I'm like, Well, you save more money you could pay up front. Like, okay, let's just do that as well as, like, is it Visa or MasterCard? It kind of like, it's oversimplifying it by 1,000% but I am a more just, like, assuming they're going to do it, because if they're fit, then I'm assuming they're going to do it, because I know they need it. They know they need it. And legal stuff is a little bit hard. It's not like marketing where you can get a clear ROI. I'm like, Give me 5000 you'll make 50.
It's more like, hopefully you don't get sued. So it's more like, you have to be an adult. It's less emotional. It's more logical sales. So that's also a different way to go about it. But no, I'm not as worried. I still don't put out content as much as I should be doing because of these figures and perfectionism and all that stuff. And so I don't want to say seven years on that I'm perfect. Nobody ever is no perfectionism. In early days, when I was just selling the templates, I told a friend who was like, willing to help me out a little bit. He's like, what's your goal? What would be amazing for you? And I was like, I just want to take home, like, 5000 a month to help support my family. Because we were, like, going into debt at this right? And he's like, okay, we can do that. And then now my goal is much beyond that.
And so, like, looking back, I'm like, Man, that was crazy. Was crazy, you know? And so again, we've talked twice in two days now, but I think when Kathi was on my show, we were talking about, don't compare your step one or two to somebody else's Step 12. And that has really helped me, too with that, because, like, I just need to make this and just so just focusing on that goal and then moving forward.
Kathi
Yeah, no, it's so good. I love it. It's so true. It's like, you know, so many people do that. They get caught up in like, Oh, but I but that doesn't happen to them. Or they think that once you reach a certain level, that the fear completely disappears and none of that exists anymore. And it's like, no, they do have, still have the fears, all of that still exists within them, but they just choose to do it anyways, and they just keep walking through it. And I think that's really important. And also, like, I love what you said about how, like, if the person is a good fit for you, you just assume they're going to do it. And I love that too, because I do that all the time. When I talk to people, I just assume they're going to do it. And we have payment plans too. And I'll just say, just say, so which option is going to be best for you right now? Do you want to pay in full, or do you want to do the payment plan option? You know, just that, you just assume that they're going to do it, instead of being like, oh, kind of wishy washy. Like, so what do you think? Do you think that you wanted? It's like, no, don't do that.
Scott
Right, right? And I was like, Okay, well, what's, you know, I just want time to think about it. Well, I've, I've done a lot of sales training in over the past many years. And so now it's like, okay, well, what's your biggest concern? I'm here to answer questions right now. So if you need to think about it, like, maybe we could think about it together. And, you know, so it's maybe not always about, like, they're just trying to delay, right? Exactly. So it's just a skill you have to learn, whether that's through repetitions, which I highly encourage this is doing the reps. Is 100 reps would be better than reading 100 sales books, but just something to learn. And so you can't get better unless you get unless you do it. This is something we talk to our 11 year old about all the time, and he's like, wants to be good at something without putting any work in. We're like, well, doesn't really work that way. So exactly I know gonna be bad. Allow yourself to be bad. And then instead of thinking about doing like, let's say, five sales calls in a week or a month, 10x it like, shoot for 50. And then 10x is kind of cliche now in the marketing world. But seriously, the volume needs to be there.
Kathi
It definitely does. You can't just, like, sit on a couch and run a magic genie lamp and think it's going to happen, you know, you've got to put in the work for sure.
Scott
Yeah, and ask for money and create a killer product. Then it doesn't really, don't have to really sell. If the product's amazing, and you get a bunch of testimonials and social proof, you don't really have to actually be very good at sales. It'll just be like, You're in the way of somebody joining.
Scott
Yeah, exactly. It's like you're taking up space here right now. Step aside. Yeah? So that's your point about No, is like you have to expect no, because if they Yeah, if they were Yes, and there's a way to sign up without talking to you, then they would already be in.
Kathi
So yeah, exactly. And it's most likely too, because it's either just not the right time for them, or there's some. Kind of objection that you haven't helped them overcome yet right
Scott
That can be a better salesman, or, like, you could be better at explaining away those objections on your sales page or through your emails or through your whatever. So there's tons of ways to kind of move that needle. But yeah,
Kathi
I think that I think, like being I know, like, I used to do this all the time. I used to always ask, like, when someone said it just wasn't the right time, I would literally ask them straight up, what makes this not the right time right now? Like, what makes you hesitant to it because you said you need it? And just find out? And then a lot of times, if you just ask that question, you can help clear it up. And then they end up buying anyways,
Scott
Yeah. I mentioned him a lot because he's, like, my new favorite thing in the world. But Alex romozi has a book about running a gym, believe it or not, but he's since expanded beyond that, and is now kind of like a great, like marketing business guy. But the back of his book I still listen to on audio, it's about overcoming these objections. And it's like, well, it's not the right time. I'm too busy. I was like, Well, do you think that you will never be busy again? Like this is the perfect time, because if you can do it now while you're busy, then when you have more time, then you'll be able to relax or something. He's got, like so many overcomes like that. So, but I love that reading that book or listening to that book doesn't help you until you get in front of people and try it. So I would say, before reading books or going and spending money on sales training, like, just, just go try it.
Kathi
Yeah, just get out there.
Scott
You're about to ask me another question.
Kathi
Then, what is it? Oh yeah, I was about to ask another question. I totally forgot. Oh yeah, I just had a couple more questions. So What? What? What is your what are your days look like now? Like, what do you do all day, all day? Well, how many kids do you have? You have two kids. Why is it two?
Scott
Yeah, we have two boys, 11 to nine right now. And so our days are busy. We have them and we ship them off to school, and then I work on a functional lawyer, whether I'm doing content for that week or lots of sales calls. Frankly, today is a lot of sales calls. I'm developing a product, a new product over there for health coaches specifically. And then I have office hours Mondays, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, are a lot of sales calls and just content creation. Friday, I have a big meeting with my wife, because we run two and a half businesses now together, and so we need to just catch up at the end of the week. And then I have another meeting with my I just hired an operations person so coo to help me with Functional Lawyer. Because now it's, it's time, it's too much for me.
Kathi
2025 is the year, yeah.
Scott
So I, you know, I get with her, see what she's done, you know, either create to do's for me, or she might have some for me that I've forgotten about. And then Friday afternoon, I kind of knock all those out. So there's a lot, I mean, so at Functional Lawyer, it's really just our main marketing is content creation and then paid ads. So there's a lot of that. And then I do have to do some research and kind of continue to update the the product to make sure it's still good and serve those existing clients. And then, then it's sales, which is kind of fun. Now, I used to hate it when I was sales rep on 100% commission, they were like, You need to make 30 calls a day. And often, like, I don't know why I wouldn't do 30 calls in a day. And that's you can make 30 calls in an hour. Yeah? No, eight hour day. I didn't do it. Just so afraid, yeah,
Kathi
so afraid of rejection. Oh, man,
Scott
Yeah. And then that's, that's the majority of it, and it feels like everything is up in the air, and my lists never get completely done. And so I'd say now that, you know, people call, like, attorneys call me. They're like, how did you do it? How are you doing this? And it looks like I've got everything all figured out. To your point earlier, still figuring it out. We're juggling, you know, a bunch of fire clubs in the air, and sometimes we drop one, and hopefully we avoid that. But I'd say probably the biggest thing I've had to learn in the past 12 months is like the to do list is okay. Things are Mini. Mini fires are okay. But if you just put out all these mini fires, you ignore that, like smoldering Ember in the back that's going to create a conflagration. To use a high school vocab word, yes, it's going to create a huge forest fire if you don't address it. Or that's one of the big things that'll unlock. And maybe even if you the other analogy that this came from was like leaks. So if there's like, a big leak, and you fix that, it might address all the other leaks, and some of your to do list items go away. But if I don't address this important but not urgent thing on my list, it'll never get done.
Right?
So that's one of the big things I've had to learn just in the past 12 months. I'm like, Oh, I'm productive today, and I did all these tiny little things, but it didn't really move the needle forward and so moment. But it's kind of delaying that gratification doing the long, larger product projects that I kind of like it's going to take me forever. Let me just do this other busy work
Kathi
Rxactly, so you can feel like you've got something accomplished. Like, okay, I work today. It's like. Damn it, I didn't actually do the thing that's going to move my business forward.
Scott
Right, right?
Kathi
We all get get caught up in that. There's so many moving parts to business, like, you could be busy 24/7 and never feel caught up.
Scott
Yeah, and so I keep mentioning them, but one of my mentors is, like, businesses don't die from starvation. They die from indigestion. So it's more about removing the things you have to do than doing more of them, doing more things. Yeah, I like to say when I'm advising kind of our business clients, it's like, look at Chick fillet, even though this is a terrible example for functional medicine
Kathi
I'm guessing you don't go to Chick fillet. Are you saying I can't do that if I want to live to level 100.
Scott
No, we're not perfect. But I always say that on the back end, I'm like, It's a terrible example for you guys, because, like, normally they're like, don't eat, you know, fried chicken. Yeah, 100% of the time. Like, of course, you know, they're good. Doctors would be like, well, you know, you have to be a human right, and who can resist it for, like, but, but from their business model standpoint, it's like, they didn't start doing wraps and salads or whatever for like, 70 years. They started with a chicken sandwich with two pickles on it, waffle fries and a soda or sweet tea, if you're from the south. And so that was their business model that then they expanded all across the country with. Like, this is a very simple menu, but don't have burgers even probably, years of calling for burgers, they're like, This is it. And then only when they were very mature did they expand. And so I say that to say as entrepreneurs, it's very easy to be distracted by new opportunities or new flashy software that you'll never use.
And so I think simplifying is more important. And then down the road, when you have a team, you can then diversify. But like, instead of being like, Okay, I'm going to host an online, what do they call those things, online summits? Oh, yeah, a couple years ago, yeah, exactly. Do this. And then, like, but that doesn't lead, you know, for my doctor clients, it didn't really lead to new patients. And so, you know, keeping your eye on what is the end result here, and then focusing on the inputs that will get you there, rather than, Oh, well, if I, if I post content every day, and then maybe I do this and host an online Summit, and I get joined this Chamber of Commerce. It's like, well, yes, maybe test them all out briefly, but then, like, focus on one thing, and then just, just do that really well. Yeah, the best marketing, I think, is also word of mouth. So be really good at what you do. And then marketing and sales is a little easier when it's like, oh yeah, Jane told me about you. So just want to learn more, and it's like, they're about to sign up with you. You know
Kathi
Exactly. That's how it works, though. Oh my gosh, I love it. So what is your if I have two more questions to ask before we wrap up the show, what is, what is your favorite thing about what you do now? Like, what do you love to do the most? Like, if you do one thing, like, all day long and, like, strip apart the whole business, like, what would be the one thing that really lights you up and gets you excited the most
Scott
I do, like, I just like helping the people. So getting on either office hours or a one on one. I mean, this is really fun. I love dissecting, kind of, like, just business mentalities a lot but that's not what they're they're there for for me. So it's, it's just kind of like either removing roadblocks, removing fears. Because people come to me as an attorney, and they're like, I'm afraid. I don't want to get sued. Because I'm like, it's very easy. And they're like, oh my god, this is so great. Now I can focus. I have confidence all of that. Or an incubator, if it's like, how do I do this? Or, like, how do I price my services? Is a big one that we handle a lot. And so again, once we once I kind of unlock that and help them, like, make a forward progress with that kind of, like, you have a teacher background, you've always been an instructor, teacher, That, like, light bulb moment, or, like, helping someone is, is probably my favorite part.
Kathi
Yeah, that's awesome. And what are you most excited about for 2025 in business?
Scott
Oh, man, I'm excited to be to going back to consistency. You know, my goal for 25 is to really be consistent with my podcast and the marketing there, to open up potential new revenue streams with sponsorships, or maybe if I get, like, free labs from somebody somewhere.
Kathi
Yeah, I can show you how to do that.
Scott
Sure, sure. But, you know, consistency. So my maybe not looking forward to but my goal is to focus on the inputs, what I can control, because that will eventually lead to the output of helping more people, which means more sales. So couple conferences coming up, we're launching the software for doctors offices, which will eventually be an EMR light. So that's our big focus here for 2025 but warmer weather. We're in Florida right now.
Kathi
I know, yes, a little bit warmer weather, please.
Scott
But yeah, no, just, you know, I don't really have I'm just looking forward to trying to enjoy every day, because this is so cliche. But, well, I think it was, who was it? I think it was Jim Carrey, who says, the actor, who says, I hope everybody gets exactly what they want in life because they realize it won't make them happy, like, I hope they get all the money, all the fame, all the whatever, because that doesn't lead to happiness at the end of the day. And so sure, we hit our goals, and we feel great temporarily. But then, as you know, there's another goal down the road or there's a new thing that comes up. And so right, if you only focus on hitting your goals, and if I only get this much money, I'll be happier. If I only get this many clients, if I only, you know, do this, I'll be happy like that won't be the thing.
And so as cliche as it sounds, just trying to wake up, and even on my hardest days, I'm like, Man, at least I'm not at the law firm, you know.
Kathi
Yeah, no, exactly like seeing that, like having that gratitude for, like, look how far I've come. Like, look where I am now. Like, my God, I dreamt of this 10 years ago, and here we are now. And I know because it's so easy to get stuck in the like, well, I'll be happy when, or I'll be happy once this happens, or once I have the certain amount of money in the bank, or once I'm, you know, whatever you can fill it in with whatever you want. But yeah, I know you, because I went down the same path too, just like you. And it's like you have to be happy for right here right now, in this moment, knowing that, like you're worthy right now, not when you have the certain amount of money or the rankings, or the certain amount of friends, or this certain kind of friend, and it's just the gratitude piece.
You know, sometimes we lose sight of that as we're trying to go towards the goals. You know, that's like, one of the biggest struggles I feel like, for entrepreneurs, because we're like, high achievers, it's like, go, go, go, and get to just be present in the moment and be grateful.
Scott
Yeah, and it does sound cliche, and if I was listening to this podcast and I was struggling in the early days, I'd be like, shut up.
Kathi
Yeah, I know. I'm sure there's a lot of people who listen to my podcast who are like, shut up, Kathi, you're high horse, you know.
Scott
And not being worried about that criticism is a hard thing to do. But I will say kind of like, I don't know if it's the stoics or somebody else, because I mentioned this yesterday, but like, life is hard, and just not expecting it to be like a 10 out of 10 every day is or expecting to be 10 out of 10 every day is a recipe for failure. I think most people who call themselves happy would rate, on average, their days about a seven, right? If you're above like a four or a five on your happiness skill a day, pretty good. You're doing pretty good.
Kathi
You're doing great. Keep going.
Scott
yeah. I mean, like, it's not meant to be life's not meant to be easy. And this stoics that I follow, so Marcus Aurelius, and I don't follow him on Instagram or anything, but, yeah,
Kathi
he doesn't really do Instagram, everybody. Okay, you're gonna have to contact your email.
Scott
He had a different form of communication, like stone, stone Actually, no, you did say you were going to be getting consistent with or maybe you didn't know that. I didn't. I'm just hearing things the wrong way. No, you're not going to get consistent with Instagram. Or are you? No, not the gram. No, not the gram. I don't even know how it works. And I'm supposed to be a millennial, so I never cut your Instagram. I'm a guy, though, and it's less for guys. Yeah, it's true, no offense if you're a guy, but it tends to be women tend to like it better. But no, it's what was I saying? Oh, yeah. Just being, just expecting it to be hard and kind of like, how do we react to that? So that's what I like to do, yeah,
Kathi
just knowing that there are going to be hard times, right? Exactly. I think that's like, a huge piece, I know, like, way back in the day when I first started business, I was like, on freaking planet, like, La La Land. And I'm like, and it was like, like, skyrocketing to the top, and everything was, like, amazing. And I'm like, you know, I remember hearing people say, like, you know, it's the entrepreneur roller coaster. There's going to be really high highs. There's going to be really going to be really low lows. And I'm like, Haha, not me. I'm not going to hit those lows. Like I'm exempt from that, because I'm the unicorn. And then I hit the low, and that's where I had that really hard time. It was because I didn't put it in my mind. But if you have it in your mind that you know some days are going to suck, like you're gonna, you're gonna be confronted with an asshole one day, like, it's not gonna go well, but you're gonna go through it anyway, and you're gonna be fine, rather than being like, no, every day is gonna be amazing. Every day should be amazing. Everything should feel amazing all the time. No, doesn't work out well when you have that kind of mentality,
Scott
right? And I was, I have, I'm glad you brought the roller coaster, because that was on the tip of my tongue. Like, maybe two months ago. I was in sort of, like a mental funk, like a down part, yeah, and, and I record all my sales calls on on Zoom, and my my new operations officer was kind of watching them to kind of get a better sense of the business. And she was like, you just looked angry at everybody. And I was like, I was just not in a good space. And, like, my percentages were super down, yeah. And then I don't know what clicked, but in December or the next month, I was like, everybody, like, this is it? I'm here to serve them. I was like, less about the outcome, because in right members had, like, a crappy outlook, and and then it was just all mental. So I think I'm not immune to it still, seven years on, even though people think I'm have most of it figured out. Yeah, it just, it still comes the real closer. It never goes away. And what I also learned too is even like fortune 500 executives, they're all bullshitting their way through it too, like they're not have it figured out, like they're doing Yes, all these leaders are just going, I mean, they may have a little more like, experience in the corporate world, but nobody has it figured out.
So if you're like, man, Kathi has got it all figured out, like, Oh God no, I don't want to speak for you, but sure, you're like, kind of in a place where you're still learning things, and you're still trying things. And I think that's a big mental shift for me too, but
Kathi
I know it's really true, like, and you know, when you were saying how you were in, like, the bad mood and stuff like that, I remember, I remember, like, learning a while ago that, and it's so kind of, it's hard to remember this when you're in it, but I remember learning, you know, it's just not about you, right? Like, it's not about you, and as soon as you make what you're doing, like, all about you, and how is this gonna benefit me and me, me, me, me, me, me, then it goes to hell in a hand basket. And it's being able to really just get detached from that, and it's not about you. It's actually about the other person on the other side and how you can serve them and what value you can bring to them. And then as soon as you can kind of release that and make it more about them and not about you. It's like, that's also too when the explosive growth can come.
Scott
that's hard, yeah, serving first is, you know, and some some sales training are, like, take a deep breath, focus on the person in front of you. How can you serve them better, even if they don't buy from you? Like, just help them make the decision not to buy from you. That's a win. But I think you mentioned detached. I think detaching yourself from the results the outcome is hard, and that's something that has to be learned. But if you just focus on what, you can control the inputs, and then the outputs will come. I think
Kathi
I know, and I know it's hard because, like, you could, you know, someone could be listening right now, and they're like, Well, that's nice, because I'm in massive amounts of debt, I'm sinking by freaking $2,000 a month, and I need to have this income or XYZ is going to happen, and blah, blah, blah, but it's like, you have to find a way to you have to really, you have to just like, trust the process and know that, like, all right, if I'm doing everything I can on my end to try to change my situation, then I have to just have faith that it is going to work out, you know, in the best way possible for me.
Scott
And I think I don't want to talk down to anybody too, but in my early days, I was like, Man, I am working so hard. And then now I'm like, that wasn't even close to hard at all. Like, I played basketball in college. And after my our freshman year, we had like, nine guys by the end of the season. So there was, like, we had really tough practices. And at the end of the year, my coach was like, we have to work even harder next year. And I was like, I had nothing like that was the hardest I've ever worked in my life. But then, like, as a senior in the same basketball program, I was like, Oh, that wasn't anything like, we didn't work at all. And so I think especially for me in the entrepreneurial journey, I thought I was working hard. In the beginning, I was like, Man, I'm doing everything I possibly can. It's like, probably not now that I'm reflecting on it. So if you are in debt and you're like, Man, I'm doing everything I possibly can. I don't mean to say like, go do more, but I think your shoulders get broader as you accumulate skills. So what is it like? Don't ask for a lighter load. Ask for broader shoulders. Yeah, your shoulders will get broader if you just kind of stick through it.
Kathi
Yeah, it's true. It's like all those like extreme lows that you have to go to go through that like you and I have had to go through. Everybody else has to go through them too. It just helps you grow and be able to handle more of that that's going to happen, and then just doesn't keep you down as long as it used to in the past. As you grow, you know, and…
Scott
I'll give you one example to tell if you're working hard or not, or if you think if you're working to your capacity or not, if you've made some money, and then you kind of forgot to set aside money for taxes, and say, you got a surprise tax bill, and you had to pay 10 grand like tomorrow. What would you do to go get it, or 10 grand with another thing. What would you to go get it? That is the capacity is like, I need 10 grand by that or whatever number is meaningful to you by the end of this period, or something happens, either I get an IRS tax lien or whatever, and then you can come up with that money. That is the level of effort that may not be sustainable every day of the year, but that's, that's your peak capacity, right? It's true. Now that's so good, easy measurement to kind of figure out, yeah,
Kathi
no, that that's so good, because it's definitely seasons throughout the year, and in your business where you do have to, like, push harder, and then there's other times where you can kind of take your foot off the gas a little bit. But it is true. It's like, it's also too, like, when you make that commitment that you're going to do it, like, I'm going to make that 10 grand by whatever next the end of next month, then you're going to do it. That means that you're going to do you're making a commitment and the promise to yourself that you're going to do whatever it takes to make that happen. And if you did do that, you'd make the money,
Scott
right? And and we talked about kids, and you know, sometimes you have to do things that you maybe you know promised or thought you would never do. So part of this reason we become entrepreneurs a little bit to have time freedom a little bit and be more time with our kids. But in certain seasons of your business or life, you have to say, Alright, kids go watch TV for four straight hours, even though screen time is the devil. But, like, I have to do work. Go figure it out. I mean, if they're old enough to do so, yeah, exactly. It's not. If you're like, too sometimes you have to be a little bit more trade off, yeah, based it's like, Okay, I did this to be with my kids, and I'm taking Saturdays and Sundays off. But as entrepreneurs, it's seven days a week, 24/7 so either. And I don't like waking up early, but, you know, working on a Saturday or a Sunday isn't the end of the world.
Kathi
Yeah, it's really true, like you do have to make some sacrifices. I remember when I first started my health and wellness business, you know, I had quit my teaching job so that I could be home and raise the kids and be a stay at home mom. And so then when I was like, at that point where I was like, Shit, I either have to go back to teaching and put them in daycare, or I have to figure something else out. Once I started that business, it's all like, was all on my phone, it was all on the computer, it was all from home. So it's very easy, you know how that is, to get sucked into, like, working 24/7 and just ignoring your kids. And I was like, I am not going to, like, ignore my kids. I didn't quit my teaching job to be home and raise them to then now go and have my face buried in my phone or my computer. And I really had to ask myself, like, what can I give up? I can't really give up much time during the day, because when they were taking their naps, it was all over the place, and that was when I was doing my workout for my mental health. So I didn't lose my shit. And then I was like, so I can either continue watching three hours of Netflix every single night in bed, you know, before I fall asleep, or that's gonna have to be the time that I have to work. And for me, that's just what I did. I was like, All right, I'm gonna have the rest of my life to watch Netflix down the road, but right now, this is what needs to change, and so you do have to make some sacrifices. And I remember I came across his name was Scottie Hobbs, and he was in the same industry that I was in, and I came across his video that he made. It was called sacrifices. And really it was me watching that video that helped me, you know, build my business from like the ground zero to six figures in 11 months, just working at home at my counter while the kids were going to bed at night. So, you know, you do have to make some sacrifices. There's always sacrifices, but it's just temporary sacrifices so that you can get to where you want to go,
Scott
yeah? And I, I love that, and I would even say, like, I don't love the word sacrifice, because it's kind of like, yeah,
Kathi
it's like, a negative, right? It's like, I have to give something up.
Scott
Where do you want to go? And what will it take to get there? And even if you don't know, you know, step three, you can start a step one. And then, you know, it does take time, so maybe you do have to temporarily pause. You know, when I was younger and I had no responsibilities, I could sit there and watch college football from noon till one in the morning, right Saturday. And I would, I would still love to be the ability to do that.
Kathi
You should, you should gift yourself a one day like to do that.
Scott
Yeah, once in a while I'll sit down. Or for playoffs, I'll sit down. But when I was a kid and through my 20s, it was like ESPN was my whole life. And so like, it's your point Netflix and either stay, which makes you stay up later exactly, not as effective the next day. Or, if it's, you know, for a lot of guys like football or whatever sports on that season, it's kind of like, what, what taught me that those don't matter, is my brother grew up in the same, you know, place as me, obviously, as far as, like, focus on sports. And so it was like, oh. And so, like, we knew everything about every team and every season across this the whole calendar. And so he was like, let me ask you a question, who won the game between USC and Notre Dame three years ago? And I'm like, I don't know. It's, like, exactly, so, yeah, it's, it's entertainment. You don't need to be in it. So do you like, you can kind of check the scores at night and still be able to have a conversation with your friends. You know, be like, Oh yeah, they're doing they're doing they're doing great this year. And so it's kind of just understanding that. So I wouldn't say it's a sacrifice, but just kind of figuring out where your priorities are. If your priority is to go watch football or Netflix and be entertained, great, but you may not be able to get to your goals either as quickly or at all, if that's the choice you make.
Kathi
So yeah, exactly. You'll find the time if it's a priority for you or to you, like, the things that you do every day right now, you do because they're a priority to you.
Scott
And that kind of goes back into the the sales process. So people are like, I don't have time, or I don't have the money. It's like, and don't assume that somebody, just because they're, like, a nurse or a teacher, that they that they don't have the money for your program. Like, if they value it, they'll pay, they'll find the time, and yeah, exactly, find the money, or they will cut back in other places. They will make their own sacrifices to get to their goals that you're helping them with. And so kind of tying it back in, like, don't just assume that somebody doesn't have the money or doesn't have the time, and you'll hear that I don't have the time. Too expensive? Okay, yeah, well, it's a good thing that is expensive, because that means you'll you'll be more invested, and you'll actually do the work, instead of somebody that just pays 100 bucks, and you'll never open the course, right?
Kathi
It's so true. It's like, if you get some skin in the game and you invest in it, you're way more likely to actually commit and follow through and do it, versus something that's free.
Scott
I didn't have that answer three years ago, but now I do right,
Kathi
exactly. So the wisdom we have all those failures and roadblocks. I mean, look at us now,
Scott
sure, yeah, expecting, no. And then I think, I think I brought it up when you were a guest on my show, but there's a line in one or two where the lady's like, all is failure and learning and then death, and that's it. So going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm. I think it's like a quote somewhere,
Kathi
yeah. I feel like that sounds familiar. Yeah.
Scott
That's success, according to Einstein. Or somebody, somebody, fact, somebody and somebody important, yeah. But that's, you know, that stays in my brain, because it's like, right? Failure, failure. And you can either death spiral and go watch Netflix and eat a bag of chips. Or you can be like, Well, why did that fail and and what can I do better next time?
Kathi
Yeah, exactly. Just look at it all as data, right? Every single time it doesn't work out, that's what you got to do. You just got to keep it separate from meaning anything about yourself, and look at it as data. And what can I tweak? What needs to change a little bit? Tweak, change, know what's going to fail again? And just keep doing that forever, yeah, and never and ever.
Scott
This is that's hard. That is hard the skill acquisition that comes over time, and so if you just stick with it, you'll get it.
Kathi
Yeah, it's so true. This has been awesome. I've loved having you on the show, and I've loved hearing like your whole journey, and I'm excited to see your 2025 kick off and touch base as the year goes on. Did you have anything that you wanted to leave the audience with?
Scott
no last thing you said. So much wisdom. Now I'm like on the spot again, but I know I mean wisdom is debatable. But interested, if you're interested in following me, I have a show that is maybe tangentially related the our my podcast is called The Junto with Scott Rattigan, J, U, N, T, O, we serve primarily health care entrepreneurs and providers, but that show is a little bit more broad. It'll have marketing and accounting and all that stuff too. So that's probably the plug is The Junto Show, and you can find it all at scottradigan.com
Kathi
Okay, awesome. That's great. I'll make sure all that is in the show notes, so that you know people can reach out and connect with you and listen to you hear from hear from you more, because I know you're gonna get more consistent now the year goes on with your podcast, right? Thanks so much for being on today, and thanks for listening guys. You know I love you. I think you're awesome, and I will see you the next time. Bye.
