Hey, my friend! What's up? And welcome back to another episode of Do Life Big. I am so excited to have you here today. Because on today's show, we have a very special guest, Michelle here with us.
Kathi:
Hey, Michelle, how's it going?
Michelle:
Hi, Kathi, really excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Kathi:
I cannot wait. I cannot wait for the show. Everyone's gonna love it so much. So let's dive in and get started here. I'd love it if you could just fill our listeners in and tell them a little bit about yourself to kick this off.
Michelle:
Absolutely. Well, we were just chatting. And you know a little bit about my background. So I'm going to make a long story somewhat short. So I started in health and wellness. I started teaching coaching, training, barre, yoga, personal training, functional fitness, you name it, I probably taught coached boot camp, did it. And so when I started looking to expand my earning and income potential, I went to the online space. And I know you started in fitness as well, which is wonderful. I feel like we all segue into the online space with like a certain expertise or interest. And then we navigate the changing narrative path that kind of comes up and for us. So you'll hear a little bit about that today.
So for me, I launched in fitness and health and started health coaching, doing one to one some small group online courses, digital products in that realm. It kind of took me a couple years, I got a little bit of traction in certain areas, but kind of felt like it wasn't fulfilling me anymore, it wasn't really lighting me up. So I kind of put all that down. It was right around the time that I got married to my now husband, Jeremy, and started focusing more on marketing and business consulting, because that was what I found that I was reading a lot about listening to and paying attention to. And I heard someone say something to the effect of whatever your expertise is, you should be reading 10 books, you know, over the course of a certain period of time, and I was realizing that I wasn't investing my education into health, wellness, and fitness anymore. But I was so interested and drawn into entrepreneurship, business building, and marketing, specifically in the online space.
So I started helping clients grow, launch, create their businesses, or transition and segue in-person businesses into the online space. So that's what I've done one-to-one over the past couple years. And now I am just launching digital products around that specifically around lead generation and kind of optimizing your systems, your funnels, and improving ways to drive traffic for your business. So that's kind of what I do in a nutshell.
And then there's a whole host of struggling with anxiety, really dealing with the doubt and variances that come up as a business owner launching products to the world, putting offers out in front of people and struggling with, you know, kind of getting in front of people and wanting to be seen. So I know that you focus on mindset a lot now. And I think that's been such a big part of my story is really becoming the master of my own mind, my own narrative and being able to show up in spite of some of those struggles, and do what I do today in terms of content creation, podcasting, and launching and selling digital products.
Kathi:
That is so awesome. So when you first went down this path, this entrepreneurial path, how long ago was that? Did you have a full-time job when you did that? Were you like just out of college? Like tell us a little bit about that.
Michelle:
So full transparency. I'm 33 going on 34 Now, so I started in the online space just about six years ago. And prior to that, I'd been teaching and coaching not quite full-time for the entirety of that for probably about six years prior. So I've done a few different things. I worked with kids for quite some time in after-school programs and summer camps, leading sessions being a camp counselor, being a head coordinator coming up with games, coming up with ways to engage, coming up with conversation and discussion points for our groups that we would bring in. I did sales and marketing for some time. So I actually worked for Mind Body Online. It's a software program that supports and facilitates fitness classes, workshops, payment processing, all of those kinds of things.
Yeah, I did sales for them for a little while, it was not for me, because technically they are SaaS company. So Software as a Service, very tech. Yeah, it's not my thing. So I didn't last very long there. But I did do sales for them for a little while. It really introduced me to the fitness space in a big way. And helps me kind of understand the business model behind personal training, fitness facilities, classes, getting people engaged in that way. So it was very helpful for what I feel like I do more of now than anything else.
And as I said, we're in transition, I did marketing and sales for actually funny story, a multi, multi-million dollar pizza chain, based here in California. So I was their events and marketing manager, I managed all of their collaborations, partnerships, donations, large sales orders, in-person events, activations to get people into the location. So I did a lot of public relations, a lot of community building a lot of networking, and a lot of kind of inventive ways to collaborate and work together with either local businesses or nonprofit organizations during that time. So it really enhanced my ability to think strategically to think out of the box and creatively about ways that I could partner with people to gain traffic to get eyeballs, get attention, or get people into the store or making purchases.
So it was very helpful, kind of a weird time in my life, where I feel like got diverted from my health and wellness paths. focus a lot on craft beer at the time a lot on pizza. But you know, we all have our, we all have our winding stories, and then transition. Yeah, so at the time that I actually launched into the online space, I was more so focused on teaching full-time. So I was teaching functional fitness, bar, yoga, and I was personal training. So that's ultimately where I was, “making all of my money.” And that's what I was doing was, I was between, you know, 18 to 24 classes a week, usually. So it was very taxing. It was very physical. Yeah, it was driving around town, I was working at different studios, I was coaching at different facilities, and then I had some one-to-one clients as well. So it was a lot of kind of going all over the place. And that's that's exactly where I was when I made that transition to the online space to kind of get out of that trap.
Kathi:
Wow, that's awesome. That's quite the story. I love hearing it though, especially the pizza part. Now I because I do always like to ask this before we dive into more about like what you do specifically with like lead generation, I think that'd be super helpful. I love hearing when you started, like have this idea that you were going to be a digital entrepreneur, online entrepreneur, whatever you want to call it, right? Did you have support? Or were people looking at you like you were nuts for wanting to go down this path? And how did you deal with that?
Michelle:
For so long, I felt completely isolated. I felt like an island. It didn't help because the year that I really transitioned to the online space, I was kind of doing my thing and building alongside while I was teaching and coaching. And then when I feel like I'd actually launched my own thing, that was in 2019. And so then the following year was 2020, the pandemic hit. And so it made me feel even more isolated. So when I first started thinking about the online space, I actually… the first program that I did, I don't know if you know the name is Ramit Sethi.
Kathi:
It sounds familiar. Yeah.
Michelle:
So he does and teach… he started with… he teaches, I Will Teach You To Be Rich and Zero to Launch and some other programs. So he started with financial advice. And then he really segwayed into business coaching and helping people establish online businesses and sales, psychology and a lot of those topics. So that was my first like, foray into the online space. And through that, I created a program. When I first started in the online space, I actually thought about hosting on other people's platforms first. So I didn't necessarily think about building my own audience, creating my own business and brand. I kind of took what I was doing and just went to people who are already doing it, and then tried to get it onto their platforms. One of those platforms was Daily Elm, which focuses in the centers around health, wellness, spirituality. So the first thing that I pitched to them was a bar program and they didn't have anything at that time like that. And so we went forward with that – that gave me the experience that I needed to really create a course focus on a sales page, like see what people were going to buy into what they wanted to hear about. And then actually create and deliver the product that people were going to use and how they moved through that making it kind of easy, accessible. And then from there, I wanted to do my own thing. So that's when I got into Ramit Sethi’s work. He was my first foray and kind of introduction to the online space. And then later, of course, I found James Wedmore, with Business By Design. And that sort of opened up a whole new world of opportunity.
So when I first got started, it felt like I was the only one that I knew interested in the online space, talking about a digital business, talking about building an audience creating content at the time, like, it just seemed really foreign to most people that I knew at the time. So it felt like I was just doing this thing that you're right. Like, I don't think anyone verbally ever told me that. You're crazy. That's not going to work for you. I can't believe you're doing that. Like, I don't think that I ever really encountered any of that. But I definitely had these internal feelings of like, oh, it's not a big deal. Oh, it's just a side thing. Oh, it's not that important. Like, I played down what I did a lot, because I was like, yes, yeah, like when I launched, like, you know, you really have to this is one thing that I've learned through this process of business, marketing, consulting, and really connecting with other digital entrepreneurs, and learning about this so much more is you have to love what you do, you have to be proud of what you do, you have to talk about what you do, you got to say out loud, you got to say it a lot, you got to repeat yourself, you got to be present. And you got to show up with enthusiasm. I think one of the best things I've ever heard about sales, is that sales is a translation of enthusiasm. And when you show up without enthusiasm, you get people invested in you. And when you're launching into the online space, most predominantly not always, but you're creating a personal brand. And you have to get people invested in that personal brand. And when I first originally got launched, I didn't have any connections with people doing what I was doing, I didn't really feel connected to even the groups that I was joining. Because you know, you're online, it feels far away. I hadn't attended any in-person events. And so again, I felt isolated, I felt alone. And I felt like I was just figuring this all out on my own. And so I was really kind of in my mind playing down a lot of what I was doing, because I didn't feel comfortable or confident about what I was doing.
Kathi:
Yeah. Do you think that when you were doing that, you weren't really taking like full ownership and of the identity of being an actual CEO? Was that part of it?
Michelle:
Not at all. Yeah, I wasn't even really acknowledging myself as a true business owner. Like, I think one of the biggest realizations that I've had this year is that, yes, I've made money in my business. But it's also being treated as a hobby. Like, it's just a really expensive hobby that I have, because I have invested so much money, so much time, so much resources. And I've put a lot of content out into the world. And I have worked really hard to try to help and support people. But through that process, I was never really honoring that I was running a business. And now as I've launched a physical product business, and I've had the experience now and worked with, okay, this is the structure of a business, this is what you have to think about this is profit and loss. This is taxes. This is this is all of the pieces of actually running a fully-fledged business has made me realize how much I wasn't treating my online business, like a business.
So I feel like a lot of times in the digital space, things can get a little nebulous, because you're like, Oh, I really care about this thing. I want to talk about this thing. I want to help people, I want to serve people. So I'm just going to put some content out there. Maybe I'll have some products, maybe I'll help people one to one. But oh, it's not that big of a deal. Oh, no, like, oh, you can go to this person. Like I wasn't really selling myself. And I wasn't structuring a full-fledged business because it felt just like intangible, you know, being in the online space. So I wasn't owning my responsibility as the CEO, as the business owner, as someone who was doing something that they loved, but also needed to turn a profit. Like, there were so many ways in which I compromised my sales by either referring out to other people, or being like, oh, no, I'll just help you with that for free. It's not a big deal. Or yeah, oh, I'll coach you and teach you for free or exchange in this other way. I just really wasn't honoring the business that I had created.
And I think we do that right, because we started on the side or we started as a small thing, or is a hobby at first. And we don't really create the structure that we need in order to say this is how much money I need to make every single month. These are the bills that I need to cover this is how much I want to pay myself out. You know, at scale. These are the products that I have. This is how many I mean need to sell in order to meet those metrics and those goals. So yeah, I wasn't owning that responsibility. I also didn't really have the wherewithal you know this was six years ago. And even though I learned about business, I'd never run, opened, launched a successful business before. So it's been a huge learning lesson and things that I would definitely do differently now. But, you know, we are where we are. And I now I know better.
Kathi:
Exactly right. Because that's what I keep telling myself too, it's all learning, like every step of the way, when it doesn't work out the way you think it's going to, or you have to pivot and shift and it's goes in different directions. It's all there to teach you something. And now, you know, in the now you can take that knowledge and you can help somebody else.
So when you were talking about the feeling like you were going to be really isolated, and you were starting this, I feel like that is such a common fear that people have, because most people don't go down this path. You know, most people do the nine-to-five, they work for someone else. And so a lot of I know my listeners, they want to start something, or they're just starting something out. But they do have this fear in their mind. Like if I go down this path, you know, who else do I know that's doing this? You know, am I going to be able to figure this out? I'm going to be all alone. I don't really know anybody personally, who's doing it. So what advice would you give to someone who was just starting out if they had that fear of being isolated?
Michelle:
I think the best advice I can give and this is from my personal experience of feeling this way when I started this process is that no one is better than you. Even though they may seem “further along than you.” They're figuring it out as they go. Nobody knows everything. And they also started from ground zero, so they respect exactly where you are in your process. I always felt that even though I was joining these groups, these masterminds these programs, and looking at other people, I was always sitting in a place of comparison. So it was always about, oh my gosh, they did X number in their launch. Oh, my goodness, they've grown this much on social media. They have hundreds of 1000s of dollars that they're making every single month, they've got all these members, they're reaching all these people like, I could never measure up to that or I'm not there yet. I don't. I don't have the value to bring to the table to even sit in the same room or have the conversation with that person. And one thing Yeah, like, big time.
So one thing that I've realized, as I've started to go to in-person events, which I could highly encourage that you do, as soon as you can go to an in-person event, do it. There are lots of connections you can make in the digital space, especially as you're creating a digital business, it can seem like that's the path like just join an online group or get into a Facebook group or pay for a course or join a mastermind. But there's always going to be at least a disconnect, at least there was for me, because I believe that I thrive much more in person. But I really think we all do. I think that's more natural. Yeah, I think it's more natural. And I've heard it from so many other people as well. So get in the room with people and try to release as much as you can. Let go of that worthiness factor because the sooner you can release it, the sooner you can actually have the conversations that will make an impact in the way that you think and in your business.
So you're just getting started, you're thinking about getting started, you're worried about either doing this on your own, or feeling like other people are going to judge you or criticize you or you're going to be embarrassed about the results you get, whether that's in social media, email marketing, course launching, getting your one to one out there, whatever that looks like for you and your business, and recognizing that we have all been there. And we respect you for just taking the action because we know how freaking hard it is to do that in the first place.
So yes, so that's… that's I could go on and on realistically, but that's a big part of it is really breaking down that barrier and recognizing that the people who are out there doing it, they don't think they're better than you. And if they do they're probably not worth building a connection with anyway. But realistically like the people who are making multi millions of dollars I'm talking $10 million plus they don't think that they're better than you, like they started exact they don't, like they truly didn't really don't, like I have been in the room with these people. I have been coached by these people I have sit, sat next to these people. I've had lunch with these people. And you start to recognize… Oh, like one you know more weight you know, way more than you think that you do right now. So start to give yourself more credit and recognize and identify the ways in which you have strength and that you bring value education and experience to the table. And that like they don't give a shit like they don't care like they really don't they are people you are a person and when you can make human connection like nothing else, man matters.
So you've got to understand your own value your own worth. And I think when we can truly do that, and how self-compassion for what it is that we're doing, that's when we show up with integrity, take the action, and do the thing. And I know that the self-doubt comes up, and it will, but get Kathi on your team, to work through the work through that. Because this, again, the sooner you can do it, like, it just, it'll change your life.
Kathi:
Oh my gosh, so good. I love how you're brought up, like the whole worthiness thing, because that's like a huge thing. And I struggled with that, too, for a long time where, you know, a lot of times you feel like, or a lot of times, like most people, you know, they have this idea in their head where like, you know, I'll be worthy when I have this amount of money, or I'll be worthy, once my business is to this level, or I'll finally be worthy. But you have to be worthy right here right now, just as you are in this moment, and really accepting that and just the importance of getting in the room with the right people, I try to do that every quarter. And it's funny when you said like, you know, people making like $10 million a year, and they're so down to earth, literally, it's insane when I look back just over my life. And you know, we were living in Massachusetts, and then we've been down here in Florida. Now, for the last seven years, I have never met more successful people in my life over the last seven years than ever, and they are the most humble down to earth, normal, regular, you'd never know it people and they are all so willing to help you. And they want you to succeed, like they truly are in your corner wanting you to succeed. And you know, and I could sit there and compare myself to all of them and be like, Hey, I'm just small fish in the big sea. But you know, I'm fine with that. Because there's only one way to go, right?
Michelle:
Yes, absolutely. And I think that we just don't give ourselves enough credit. We are constantly in our heads, we have all of that negative self-talk that happens. And we're not really testing things out in the world. Like, if you actually haven't launched anything, if you haven't really created a content around what you're doing. If you're still in that ideation phase, you don't know. And some of the best ideas are complete and total flops. Because once you get in front of people, it might not work, it might not be the right market, it might not be the right time, it might not be the right industry, it doesn't mean that you have any less value. It doesn't mean that just because the idea didn't work, the concept didn't work, that you didn't work, that there's something wrong with you. And I think I really needed to detach and I'm still actively working on detaching my value from the work that I do.
And there's that concept like your business is your baby or you know, your content is a reflection of you and like all of these things. And on one hand, yes, I respect that we put so much effort and energy into something. But we really need to detach from that thing, just like we need to detach from the outcomes, right? So if you have the success, if you get the metrics, if you're seeing that build that reach that engagement, if you're seeing the sales that conversions, that's awesome. But it can't necessarily mean anything about you, as a human being as a person, as an entity in this world, just the same as if you're not getting the conversions, you're not making the sales, it doesn't mean that you're a crappy person, like truly. And I know that saying that it can feel ridiculous, because you're like, Oh, of course, I wouldn't think that. But how many times do we put things out into the world? It doesn't go well. And then we internalize it, and we make it about us. Oh, I did something wrong. Oh, I'm not good at this. Oh, there's something wrong with me. And every variation of that feeling that narrative. But realistically, it's like you're marketing, your products, your business is a separate thing from you. And yes, it can come from intuition. And it can come from internal and it can be inspired. But it is separate. And when we can see it as separate, we can be more neutral and how we navigate growing and building our businesses. So if you're considering doing something like this, one, know that like shit is gonna hit the fan. Hard. Oh man, so many times and stuff isn't gonna work. And that's okay. You have to expect it. If you're thinking about being a business owner or digital entrepreneur, or launching anything of your own or even like trying to take somebody else's idea and launch it like things just aren't going to work the way that you think they are. And that's okay, you'd need to expect that to happen and then be able to navigate pivot and tweak in order to adjust and move past it.
Kathi:
That's so good. I know because I know that was something I struggled with too is like when things weren't working the way that I wanted it to. In my head. The fitness business and things were flopping left and right and failing left and right I did I associated myself like I was the reason for that problem, you know that failure meant that I was the failure, that failure meant that I wasn't cut out to really do this. And, and it's so important, you have to keep them completely separate from each other, like you are not your business. What happens? It doesn't happen. It's not you. It's all data, keep it separate, learn from it, and just keep freaking going. Right?
Oh, my gosh, I have one more question kind of along these terms before we go into like your tips and tricks for like lead generation and driving more traffic to you, because that will be super beneficial. I know you have some awesome freebie stuff, too, that we can give to the listeners. But what piece of advice would you give to someone who is in that situation where you were in where you were doing something for a while, and you kind of started to question, Should I still continue to do this? Is it time to pivot? What advice would you give to that person that's in that situation? How do they know if it's time to pivot? Or they just actually haven't given it long enough?
Michelle:
This is such a wonderful question. Because I think that we get again, in our heads so much about it, and it can feel, and I'm gonna describe this, from my experience, it can feel like you are trying so hard, like it can feel like you've created the different products and programs, you've been putting the content out into the world, you've been having the conversations you've been on the podcast, or featured in other people's memberships, you've done the features in online media, you have really been like working and working, working. And I see you and I see how hard you're working. Because I have been there too.
And I think the thing that if you feel like, Gosh, why isn't anything working, how to determine whether it is that you just haven't given it enough time or enough tweaking or enough adjustment, versus I need to shift and pivot is twofold, one of which is going to be internal for you. And the second of which is going to be strategic. So you need to look at what you've actually been doing and get super, super real about it. Have you looked at all of the metrics? Have you looked at every single if you're thinking about paid media? Have you looked at the click-through rate? Have you looked at the conversions? Have you looked at you know, the reach that you're getting? Have you looked at your ad spend and whether that is making sense if you're doing it organically, same thing? What are the comments like what are the engagements, like? What's the actual traction that you're seeing? Are you getting DMS or you're getting people to take that next step with you?
And then what's the opt-in doing? What's the sales page doing? Like, what's everything doing at every single step of the way, and then really analyze the consistency. So for a long time, I thought I was being consistent. And I thought I was showing up a lot. And I thought I was doing all these things. But when I looked back and I tracked the timeline, it was actually a little bit more scattered than I would have liked. And for me, the other piece of that. So that was the strategy piece. The other piece of that was the internal peace. So does it actually light you up. Because you have to have some sort of passion and interest in what it is that we do. If you're looking at larger businesses, it's a different conversation. But if you're looking at a digital business online, and you are the type of entrepreneur who actually cares about what they're doing, because some people can just like, I'm gonna go to work, I'm gonna put an eight to 10 hours, I don't really care what I do, I'm not really interested in being passionate, I can just pump out the work and make money.
But if you're looking at being like that heart centered and intuitive and passionate kind of business person, the thought leader, magnetic personality, then you need to have interest, passion and have that thing light you up. And I think for a long time I clung to fitness because I thought it was the thing that I wanted to do forever, but it wasn't. And so for me as I was getting the opt ins as I was getting the applications, you and I talked about this a little bit, but I was simultaneously trying to cast out this net, come in, be a part of my business, buy my products, get into my programs, but then I would shut and close down the actual sales and conversion because I didn't actually want to work with people one to one when it came to this particular topic.
Like I was subconsciously warding all of my sales efforts, even though the lead generation was great even though I was getting applications for my programs, even though I was putting myself out there. So when I look back at it, it's like okay, the strategy the structure was there the metrics are converting. Remove myself emotionally of course and take that away. Look at it new truly does this strategy work? Yes or no? And then internally, am I lit up by this? Am I passionate? Do I have a fire inside of me? Am I interested and energetic and enthusiastic to talk about what I'm talking about to do what I do and to deliver on the service product or program that I'm putting out into the world.
So asking yourself those two questions. And if you can sit back and say, the strategy is all there, the consistency is all there. But I don't have the passion as much anymore. It's not letting me up, it's probably time to pivot. If you have the passion, and the interest and the care and the enthusiasm for what you're doing, but you look back and the strategy is not quite there, then you should probably go back to the drawing board with strategy and tweak, improve, change, but focus on that same thing. So I hope that's helpful for anyone listening that feels like they're in that fork in the road of like, I've been working, working, working working, what do I do now?
And for me, I think it was that my passion didn't align with the strategy anymore. It's like I had all the strategy, but it didn't have the passion. And we know you and I, Kathi and the people that we work with typically know that energetics is such an important part of what we do, especially when you're creating a personal brand, especially when you're asking people to invest in you, again, sales is that translation of enthusiasm. And you're going to attract and draw in those people through your magnetic energy. And if you don't have those energetics and frequency, then you're going to repel people or you're going to shut it down or you're going to thwart or sabotage in some way. Yeah. So having the energetics having the strategy making those sure those two things are aligned.
Kathi:
Oh my gosh, that was so so so good. That was awesome. Thank you. Oh, my gosh, that's so perfect. It's so true, though, the whole energy piece because I know even myself personally, and I know a lot of other people too who they think just going through the motions of the things that they need to do in their business is going to be enough to get them the result that they want. And it's and it's not. And I learned that the hard way. And I know a lot of people who had to learn it the hard way too. But yes, your energy is everything. It's everything. So important. Thank you for that.
And I love that quote. What was that quote that you said about the sales sales as a? What did you say? Say it again?
Michelle:
Sales is a translation of enthusiasm. And I think that we… Yeah, I think it I think it does a few things for us is that oftentimes in our own businesses, we equate sales as being bad, right? You've heard that so many times, at least,
Kathi:
Like the sleazy like, you're like the sleazy car salesman, you know, no one wants to be that person.
Michelle:
Yeah, as sales is a dirty, not a term for a lot of people. And I, and it has been for me in the past two is that, you know, you want to teach and coming from the practitioner side. So if you are a practitioner, a coach, whatever you do in terms of your expertise, if you do it really well, oftentimes transitioning to that market, or that salesperson is really freaking challenging. Because you want to teach you want to coach you want to give, you want to educate, you want to be the practitioner, that's what you feel like you're here to do. That's your dharma. And so having a different perspective on sales can really help you transition your approach to that process in so many ways. And it can help you help so many more people. So really pivoting the perspective to the more that I can sell, the more that I can translate that enthusiasm, the more that I can get people on board with my service, my products, my programs, the more people I help more people's lives that I change transform, the more that I can help them grow, and get them into that practitioner coaching side. So we've got to kind of shift that narrative. And she kind of kind of seeing that differently is, I think, really important for us if we're going to grow if we're going to expand, and if we're gonna keep sustaining the business that we set out to create.
Kathi:
Yeah, so true. It's not so many people think like, oh my gosh, like the sales like I'm taking from them, you can't look at it that way. You're not taking anything away from them you are, what are you going to be giving them right? That's so so true. Let's dive into the dive into the really good stuff now. With like tips on how you know, we can drive more traffic, you can go down your expertise here with this and share some good stuff here because that's not my specialty. And I'm looking forward to learning from you right now.
Michelle:
So we'll definitely link up in the show notes a, an easy way to drive traffic. It's just basically like a list a little bit of a guide on all of the different ways you can drive traffic. So I think this is where kind of my creative thinking comes in, collaborative opportunities that I've leveraged in the past. And kind of the different ways that I've led through my career because I didn't just start in the online space. It comes from a whole background of being in the community of creating different things, whether that's in the nonprofit space or whether that In, I did a lot of community events, you know, as I've evolved here in this space, so it kind of comes from that kind of creative thinking and outlet, you have a lot of traditional ways, right? You've got your social media channels, you've got your paid advertising, whether that is Google, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, whatever, you've got YouTube, you've got SEO, there are a lot of traditional ways that you can go about pushing traffic.
So there's a couple of things here, I'll talk about them separately, because I think it's important that we think about them a little bit separately. One of which is driving traffic. So that's just a matter of like, getting in front of people and pushing them to do something, right? Because most of the people that I work with, they don't necessarily have a problem with getting in front of people, it's usually pushing them to do something, right. So content creators, for example, who tend to get in front of a lot of people or have a lot of reach, but they don't have an email list, or they don't sell their own products, they only focus on brand deals, which is not a bad thing at all. But when you build your business or build the structure of your Creator, economy around borrowed platforms, it's not necessarily the healthiest way to expand and to grow, or even to monetize. So I know, there are a lot of people who have a lot of followers, but they're not making money, or they're just not really building a business, they're just creating content that people pay attention to and put it out in the world. And then that's great.
So when I talk about driving traffic, we're talking about ways to actually get people to what it is that you're doing. And you start with getting in front of people, but then you transition them. And then lead generation is getting that opt-in. So now you've gotten to them to the page, now there's the matter of actually getting them to opt-in to the thing that you're doing. So that's your landing page that has everything that you need to do. And of course, we're in an amazing program that walks you through that process. But a lot of people get stuck because you're in your own head. This is one thing that I've found with clients. And even for myself, it's a lot easier as a third party person to look onto something and say, shift this, tweak this, change that because I'm not running through and cycling through everything that you know, everything that you want to say, and everything you want to teach and try to cram into the page, right? So true. Yeah, we all do that. And it takes sometimes the third party person who doesn't have any of the same ties, or any of the same connections, to be able to say, neutrally, okay, this is what we're going to change this, how we're going to improve it. This is how the perception of the stranger or the prospective audience member or the customer is going to engage with this page. This doesn't make sense this out, we can, we can change this.
So you've got driving traffic, and you've got the actual lead generation, which is your opt-in conversion, the copy the way in which you're setting up the page, and how you get people to take action to opt-in to the thing that then it's going to kind of feed them into your, your pool, your network, your email list and how you nurture and convert them later on. Right? Yep. So driving traffic. Now, there are some unique and interesting ways that people can drive traffic that maybe they're not thinking of or utilizing right now. And because we're in the digital space, I want to emphasize in-person events, as a way to do this, if you haven't yet. Or if you think like, I really excel in person, but I don't translate as well. So my content creation isn't really landing, I'm not really getting in front of a lot of people is like take what's already working, if you are good in person, leverage that opportunity. How can you participate more in in-person events? How can you speak on stages? How can you get in front of people, that then you can either pull the list from which coordinators, organizers can do or share in that way, as long as obviously, it's okay, you can offer a gift or an opt-in at that time. Or just like I know, it sounds so silly, but sometimes just that traditional, hey, we're doing a giveaway, join the email list. Or if you sign up for the email list, I'm setting up free 15-minute consultations and getting people that way. So that's a little bit of like traffic and lead gen. Well, those are good tips. Yeah, elite.
And then obviously driving traffic. Getting featured in other places is very helpful. And people I think, again, this goes back to the self-doubt and the lack of confidence that's really important is that we oftentimes just default to the things that we feel comfortable with and maybe we don't feel comfortable reaching out to people. So this is a way that I'm leveraging to get in front of people and drive traffic to what it is that I do. But that can look like you know getting featured in someone else's blog, on their social media channels, mentioned in their newsletter, and whether these are paid opportunities, or whether they're collaborative opportunities, we are missing out all the ways in which we can actually connect with people. And I think we're not doing it because we feel embarrassed about where we are or what do I have to offer? What am I going to say? Or how am I going to help?
And I think if you can reach out with the intention to give and to provide first, I think there are so many ways in which you can help support other digital business owners, like we're looking for people to be on our podcast, you know, as as experts in their field. So it's helpful for us to be able to gain your presence and have that conversation. And then you get in front of our audience, social media channels, as well as actually on the podcast. So I think the the guest collaborations are really positive. Yeah. And so that's where I'll wrap up with driving traffic just as like thinking outside of the box. And obviously, there's a whole list that, again, we'll include in the show notes of other ways to do that. But do you have any questions specifically about driving traffic that you think would be helpful for folks listening?
Kathi:
That was really good. That was awesome. Thank you, I was gonna ask you to tell me a little bit more about the the freebie. So the freebie. It gives you a list of the different ways that you can drive mortar? Is that what it is?
Michelle:
Yeah, so we're not going to chat about all of them today, because there's just such a huge amount of ways that you can drive traffic. And oftentimes people are sitting back, and I've been guilty of this is like posting on Instagram, and then not getting any opt-ins or views on your landing page in the first place. And then being like, Ah, it's not working. And really, it's like, okay, but did you think about the other 101 ways that you can actually drive traffic by again, leveraging other people's audiences, putting yourself out in different ways, being on different platforms in different ways, not just social platforms? So there's a lot of ways in which you can think about driving traffic that are probably more than what you're doing right now. And so it's like, you're probably doing this small segment if you're listening and thinking like, Okay, how come I can't drive more traffic? It's like, well, you're probably just doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.
But if you start going at it from different ways, I mean, if you look at it, okay, one of the things that I'll actually bring up that I think is a really beautiful case study. And even though these people are at a very high level, and if you're listening, you're going to think like, oh, that doesn't apply to me, but we can take what they're doing. And we can model it on a smaller scale. So if you are familiar with Brendon Burchard. Who is big, high performance, personal development, it's like high-level coach, but also teaches business and marketing. Yeah. He has like probably the highest personal development mastermind in the world. I know Tony Robbins host one too. So like that. We're talking like high high level. Yeah, they're like, all the people like Amy Porterfield, Jenna Kutcher, Lewis Howes, Mel Robbins, Jay Shetty, like, all of the people that you know, that are the top level people in the world when it comes to personal development or business building. It's those people, but look at what they do from a marketing perspective, is that typically, as a group, collectively, whenever one person is talking about someone, everybody else talks about it, highlights them, brings them on.
So if you have a book launch, or if you have a program launch, what do you want to do at that time, you want to drive as much traffic as possible. So what do you have, you have your own organic channels, and you have your own paid advertising. Okay, great. But that probably gives you about 10% of the opportunity that you have. But if you can leverage 10 other people's organic social media channels, paid channels, if you're an affiliate, if they become an affiliate, right, because they'll do that, or just getting in front of their podcast, their social channels, like everything that they're talking about doing when they speak about things, having them on to yours and borrowing that authority. And then you just cycle that through. So you have 10 people in a group or even just five, and you capitalize on the fact that okay, you pull from this audience, you pull from this audience, you have this thing going on. When I'm marketing or selling this thing, then I'm going to be featured on and we're going to highlight and talk about me and that just exponentially amplifies the reach that you have at that time. So then you have people who are following a handful of those folks. And so then you start to see them everywhere.
So we know that from a marketing perspective, someone needs to see something multiple times the number is debatable, especially now but let's just say five to eight times minimum before they take an action. So now you're being featured on 10 other channels. You've just almost organically seen that same person and talking about that book, talking about have that product, talking about that program? 10 different times, or at least eight of them. Yeah. And then you're reaching all the new people through the reach and engagement of social media channels now, and you just think like, Whoa, my mind was just blown because crazy. It's crazy.
And we as smaller business owners aren't always leveraging that opportunity. We come up to a product program and launch we just think like, Okay, well, you know, I'm gonna put it out here, and I'm gonna talk about it on my newsletter, and I'm going to share it on my podcast. But that's just such a small demographic that I'm pulling into. What if I partnered with five other people? I mean, James does this with affiliates, right? Yeah. So you have all of the affiliates. I mean, that's, again, a swarm, there's a whole we got to scale it for us, Hey, I scale it down for us small folks right now. But the idea and the concept is there. And we can mimic that in different ways. Again, even if you just have three friends. And those three friends are helping support, launch, scale row, at the same time, just the impact is dramatically larger. So anyway, I went on a ant there.
Kathi:
That's good stuff that people don't think about. And people are too scared to do because like, like you said, and like, we know, they're nervous to do it. Because of where they are right now. They're maybe more in the beginning stages are not quite where they'd hoped to be, or they're not as far along as you know, this other person, so they don't want to even kneel. They're too embarrassed. And you got to just put all that aside.
Michellei:
Yeah, I'm at the stage in my business. Now where I'm like, F it. Like,
Kathi:
I'm gonna say that daily, literally, I say, I say it daily. And I say the full word, by the way.
Michelle:
I'd say your your I know, you're much more, you're much more brazen than I am. Sometimes I struggle with the cuss words
Kathi:
with the cuss words.
Michelle:
But true, it's true. Like you have to get to a stage where you're like, Screw it. Like, I don't care about what someone else thinks about me right now, I don't care about the criticism, I don't care about the judgment, I'm going to embody who I am, how I'm showing up how I help people and what I want to bring to the world. And you have to break down that barrier. And I think for me, Kathi, part of that whole pivot and change and evolution and growth was really, really entrenched in so much personal development. And I did struggle with anxiety for so long. And I really just like, battled the negative self-talk. And I talked myself out of so many opportunities. And I talked myself out of so many sales, and I left so much money on the table. And it's not just the money, but it's that feeling of feeling unfulfilled or disappointed in what it is that you've done.
And I know that obviously we're gonna let go of that. Nothing wrong with it, it was my journey, I'm turning my pain into my purpose. But, but really, you've got to let that shit go. And you've got to honor and acknowledge and identify what it is that you bring to the world, I think you should own it, I think that you should be proud of it, I think you should embody it and then show up in every location, place opportunity that you have, and get a lot more No’s than Yes’es. Put yourself out there so that you are getting a lot of No’s, every single entrepreneurial opportunity that I've ever seen, grow, be successful, reach the multi-millions, billions dot like, pop off, got so many No’s in the beginning, so many No’s. And you just have to have that passion, you have to have that conviction. And you have to own what it is that you do and show up to make it happen. And I think when you do that, that's when you can actually like act on what it is that we're talking about. Because so much of that is the struggle for most people.
They're sitting in that place of either indecision, lack of clarity, they're spinning their wheels, they've been thinking about the same thing forever and ever. And then they haven't acted on it, put it out into the world, they have no idea if it's going to work. And they're just internalizing all of the potentials, the possibilities, the fears, the embarrassment, the disappointment, the shame, the guilt that's gonna come along with it. And we got to move through it. Like we got to move through it so I can if there's anything that I leave you with today, it's just to get you to take that first step, whatever that action item is, you know what you're supposed to do get quiet, think one thing and just go out and do that thing.
Kathi:
That was an amazing way to end it and wrap it up. Let me tell you that. So before we close out here, why don't you tell everybody where they can listen to you, what the name of your podcast is and where they can find you on Instagram. I'll make sure all of that is in the show notes so that they can get in touch with you because this has been incredible.
Michelle:
Thank you, Kathi. Again, thanks so much for having me. This has been so much fun and I think that's what we need to do more of is like imbue fun and energy and excitement into our work in our business because it really should be like because otherwise what the heck are we doing this boy?
Kathi:
What are we doing?
Michelle:
Yeah, what are we doing?
Kathi:
What are we doing here?
Michelle:
You can find us on our podcast. I would love if you came and hang out with us. So it is me and my co-host Joanna Newton. She is the business owner of a half-million-dollar agency millennial marketer, wonderful. And so we talk on Her First: Prioritizing You In Business and Life. It's a lot about digital marketing and online business, but really also about being a female entrepreneur or business owner, and how that shows up in our personal and professional life.
You can find me on Instagram @themichellepualani. And just let me know what you thought about today's conversation. Tag me, tag Kathi and I'd love to hear from you.
Kathi:
That's awesome. Well, thanks so much for being on the show today. Michelle, it this was absolutely incredible. I know the listeners are going to absolutely love it. And thanks for listening to Do Life Big today. You know, I love you. I think you're awesome. And I will see you the next time.
